[UK] Manchester Magic Bus 三軸利蘭

原帖由 art0925 於 2006-4-5 15:36 發表
Yes, I believe it was replaced with Cummins ISMs

Should be ISCs instead of ISMs

原帖由 smal 於 2006-4-5 02:00 發表


You're welcome mate.



So there you go. As I said, it does turn out cheaper if you a company to go with you.



Not quite true.  The same applies to the Southern Hemisphere. Judging f ...

It is certain that some part of the discussion is going off-topic, so I'll just stop it here. (e.g. it's simply pointless to talk about the geography bit since it's just an arguement on which region is that statement valid which is a common sense) However as requested I'll reply particularly on the part about Photography.

I am afraid that I don't have any photography experience or "standards" to share here, because I don't know much about photography and on the other hand they are not important at all. However this does not mean that a "standard" does not exist - it just varies with different individuals. Generally and personally I am only satisfied with pictures of buses if (1) the 35mm eqv focal length is over 100mm, or for invaluable phototaking chances, 80mm; (2) the photo is not strongly backlight on at least one of the sides of the bus shown in the picture; (3) the ratio of the width of the front and body on the perspective view is approximately 1:2 to 2:5; (4) there is nothing blocking part of the bus from the camera view except that it is a bus stop, and (5) the photo is clear and sharp, especially night and pan photos. However does it means that this so-called "standard" applies to everybody? No, it's just my personal requirements for my OWN pictures and I never use this "standard" to judge others pictures. I believe that it is more or less the same case for everybody - we all have a standard for our own self. Judging by your standard, you may find Piccadilly Gardens a good phototaking spot, while the same place might not be as good in my standard. Does it means that either of us have a problem? No, not necessarily. Unless you force others to accept your set of standards.

And about finding places to take pictures.
Here I thank smal for the suggestion of using Multimap.com to search for phototaking locations. Regrettably I don't find a map particularly useful - obviously we looked at maps of Manchester before coming to the city, but I cannot figure out from the map whether Piccadilly Gardens is a good place or not. Map is a 2D planar rational discription of places which can be quite useful for measurements and orientations, but for photography I need a 3D Space to look for phototaking spots. When I walk into Piccadilly Gardens, the top of the cafe, the height of the plantations around, the steel supports of the renovation site opposite to the bus station, the light and shadows on the ground and the traffic going around etc create a space for me to be engaged in, and this space would give me senses towards different parts of this place, which then finally would give me an idea of where to take pictures best. It is 3D and irrational - both cannot be provided by a simple map.

I better stop here because I can feel that this message is getting lengthy and boring for most of us here.
I would like to express my appreciation towards smal for continually mentioning that words here are not offensive, and I should also declare here that I am happy with any constructive discussions, and I am not writing to offense anybody.

best regards,
Denny

P.S. A name is just a way of representing yourself - Denny is me, AL57 EY4088 is me as well. AL57 EY4088 here is not to represent a bus but a person - it's almost the same case as if I am born to be named a fleet number. However I would not mind to use my real name if anybody feels uncomfortable about it, and I am glad to change my habit. So here I did it.

P.P.S. I am definitely a chinese from Hong Kong - otherwise why HKitalk.net? It is now my first year at Nottingham University, as well as my very first time studying abroad. There are loads to learn, and most importantly English. It is quite natural to see from my language that I am not a native here , but I'll definitely improve.

[ 本帖最後由 AL57_EY4088 於 2006-4-8 06:21 編輯 ]

原帖由 AL57_EY4088 於 2006-4-8 06:12 發表


It is certain that some part of the discussion is going off-topic, so I'll just stop it here. (e.g. it's simply pointless to talk about the geography bit since it's just an arguement on which r ...

Without trying to take this discussion too far, I think it's fair
to point out that each of us have a criteria on what is a good
picture. However, I would also like to stress that this is no
standard to anyone else - you don't need me to say that one's
good picture is a poor picture on the other's eyes. The quality
is a subjective topic and it is seemly pointless talking about
"standard" pictures.

As I said, each of us have our own definition on what stands
a good picture. If you have a definition yourself and you want
to stick to it, fine. If your picture is "crap" in your point of view,
it is up to you to decide whether to post it or not. You know,
the decision is down to yourself. The point is, many of us simply
do not care. Forum B5 is not here for hosting photography
competitions. It is knowledge, pictures and experience sharing
that really matters here. A picture if a good subject, in my opinion,
is 100 times more valuable here than what's called a "standard"
picture that so many folks seem so thrilled to get.

In any case, just a warning shot to you, if you want to find as
good a place to take pictures like in HK, you will be disappointed
(as you might have realised anyway). The road layout here and
the sun (if it ever comes out) is much less favourable most of the
time. Unless you travel far and wide, it is simply not easy to get
to a shot to shot the buses in the way you desire.

Anyway, whilst I am not using the moderator account, I would like
to welcome you on board. I trust manyof us will love to see more
of your excellent pictures - just don't mention standards! We have
none here!!!

原帖由 AL57_EY4088 於 2006-4-4 23:27 發表
Taking advantage of the 4 for 2 train tickets offer in middle England, I travelled to Manchester yesterday to get some shoppings. It had been a while ago since I last came here, so I didn't notice  ...

Nice pictures

I wonder did you take any picture of First's Scania Omnicity in Manchester? First Group did a splendid job there by introduced more than 100 new buses per year.

原帖由 norrislaw 於 2006-4-8 18:41 發表
I wonder did you take any picture of First's Scania Omnicity in Manchester? First Group did a splendid job there by introduced more than 100 new buses per year.

Here you go:



First Manchester 12017, Scania Omnicity CN94UA, Manchester (25 Feb 2006)

They took up so many new vehicles last year only because they
were criticised severely for their aging fleet for god-knows-how-
many years. At one point, their average fleet age is creeping
up to 10-2 years.

原帖由 blueblue 於 2006-4-5 02:02 發表
actually what engines do ex-3BL use? I think their former G 6LXCT engine could not pass the UK emission standard.

Yes,They still using the same engines as they used in HK.

the photo is clear and sharp, especially night and pan photos. However does it means that this so-called "standard" applies to everybody? No, it's just my personal requirements for my OWN pictures and I never use this "standard" to judge others pictures. I believe that it is more or less the same case for everybody - we all have a standard for our own self. Judging by your standard, you may find Piccadilly Gardens a good phototaking spot, while the same place might not be as good in my standard. Does it means that either of us have a problem? No, not necessarily. Unless you force others to accept your set of standards.

I agree with your opinion, because last time when I just came to Manchester from Nottingham, first at all the weather was not very good in that day.It's
about the end of October, the Central of Manchester is very crowded, so I find it very hard to take a pictures in the city centre. Because a lots of buses and
cars around the city centre so I can't find a lot of place for my long lens camera. In my standard Manchester Piccadilly Gardens is not really good for my to
take a pictures but I can't find any places to take it, so I stayed in Piccadilly Gardens all day so I take quite a lot pictures inside. But actually nice
picture taken by DSLR, my pictures only shot by a little Digital Camera.

http://www.tinywong.talktalk.net/PICT7967.jpg
First Manchester 12017, Scania Omnicity CN94UA, Manchester (25 Feb 2006)

follow


[ 本帖最後由 J702HMY 於 2006-4-12 06:58 編輯 ]

How much is riding the 3Bl compared to the Trident? Is it cheaper?

Dear All,

[For those who know me, I am actually 'A Briton' and not Chinese, but I visit HK every year [just back after two very busy weeks!].
I understand AL57's [or Denny],  and also agree with NV58 regarding the comparison between Photography in HK and the UK. I have been visiting HK for many years- since 1990 in fact, and have been taking photos over here and in HK.
The light quality in the UK is much poorer than in HK. On Ching Ming day in the PM, when I was taking photos at Wah Ming [the nearside spot, as the buses enter the bus stop bays, or, later on the the pm when the 273 AVs and 3AVs come into the stop offside] and the sun was shining, my exposure reading for speed of 640 was reading 7.1 which is my own personal definition of optimal lighting condition for photoing buses in the sun. You will hardly get such a woderful spring light over here!
During the winter, the weather is really gloomy and dull- in the UK. you really need to have low f stop lens or an ability to 'up' your ISO to 800 [or 1600], and many photos can be taken only of buses standing still at 1/60th. This is not the case in Hong Kong!  I find photo-ing in HK in the winter very easy indeed.
[and I am 'crazy' enough to get up early in the morning to photo the 0714 departure of ATE94 on the 248- and get a very good shot too!]

The logical solution for those who prefer using DSLR and not fixed digital cameras [as smal uses- I know him..] is to go for a 'standard lens'. In case of Canon, it is the 35mm f2 fixed lens which, at the focus ratio of 1.6 transates to 56mm lens in SLR terms. the other lens offered are ' zoom', and, at 35mm, you only get f4.5 - 5.5, and the loss of those 2-3 stpos is very bad in the depth of winter.
For instance, the 8th Dec 2005, where all London bus fans were photo-ing the guest vehicles on route 159, we had to use ISO800 and f2 simply because the light was so bad. no other choice really.

Another issue in the UK , as NV58 points out, is that the streets and roads are really narrow. a bus fan I met in Mei Foo [the 11am spot, standing on the 'traffic island' by the PLV stand, taking shots of buses going towards Lai Chi Kok], and he only had 70-210mm lens. this lens is useless in the UK [for DSLR].
On other hands, using my own 35mm fixed lens [the equivalent of 56mm of SLR] in HK was not always that good, as the roads were too wide. I take with me the 18-55mm lens that came with the camera I bought. when I showed my 35mm f2 lens to HK bus fans, it was the subject of much curiousity.....no one very there has one!

In the UK, bus fans who own canon 350D ,300D,20D or 30D normally use the canon 35mm f2 in the winter or in town, and zoom lens only on special occasions, or if you do not photo in town, or for those photographers who only take shots in sunshine.

You will not find many bus photographers with Nikon or other DSLRs because the lack of the standard lens f2 equivalent for winter photographs.

What is the standard of a good photo? it depends on everybody's point of view.  there is a standard employed by publishers- after all, you hope that if someone chooses to print a photo in a book or magazine, it is a good photo, but , a definition of a good photo is entirely personal.

my own recommendation for those who use SLR or DSLR camera is to buy a circular polarizing filter, as it would reduce the reflections coming from modern buses. you do loose one stop, but you also loose the reflection. This recommendation is made for buses in the UK, HK, Singapore etc.

I agree that Piccadilly gardens are not the best place in Manchester for photos- on sat, and certainly on sunny days. but why there? what we did with route 216 is simply go for a ride and find a good spot!  the 216 goes to Ashton, and the road to/from there is good for nearside shots all pm- moving shots - in the sun, and the entrance to/from the bus station in Ashton offers many opportunities.
Routes 86/143/142 also serve the university area, and there are many places amongst the road suitable for photos.
I would actually recoommend a ride on route 216 on one of the ex 3BLs,  [about 35-40 minutes each way.

The Transport service model in Manchester is actualy interesting, where there is competiton on the same route - but on fares. Magicbus [owned by Stagecoach] uses old second/third hand buses and offer cheap fares , while stagecoach use modern low floor d/d buses on route 216 and offer dearer fares [GBP1 vs magicbus of 70-80p]. It makes sense, as the Stagecoach took over Denis Bus that competed with Magic Bus.
Magic bus operate on routes to poor areas and where students live, so it is the 86 192 143/3 and the 216. they use a mix of ex KMB 3BLs, some ex Citybus 1xx, ex dragons from their operations in Africa, and many second hand buses from other UK operations.

regards

Yoram.