[UK] Wright StreetDeck終於現身

日前Wright宣布將會推出新一代自家雙層巴士, 名為StreetDeck
並喺巴士雜誌上指出絶大部分車身零件可以直接移植到配Gemini 3車身嘅富豪B5TL/B5LH上, 而完全兼容
亦公布其驅動佈局為Offset T-drive

於是我認為佢嘅外表應該比較似B5LH, 點知原來係B5TL/B5LH嘅混合體
http://benjibusesnewsandviews.blogspot.hk/(四月廿一日嘅post, 第六幅圖)

原帖由 GW5498 於 2014-4-22 01:21 發表
日前Wright宣布將會推出新一代自家雙層巴士, 名為StreetDeck
並喺巴士雜誌上指出絶大部分車身零件可以直接移植到配Gemini 3車身嘅富豪B5TL/B5LH上, 而完全兼容
亦公布其驅動佈局為Offset T-drive

於是我認為佢嘅外 ...

本黎想問下點解可以咁肯定個部車係 StreetDeck
(因為如果跟返舊年年尾既雜誌報導，有部畫出黎既黑色概念車車窗分佈應該同 B5TL 一樣)



跟著放大張相黎睇，錶板好似唔同左，寧寧舍舍佢無 Volvo 水牌
車窗分佈似 B5TL，頭跨似乎都係一樣咁短，同時車尾散熱網似 Gemini 2DL 個種，擺左邊
之前報導好似話個佈局同 B5LH 相反 (即係擺右邊)，唔知係我記錯定係一邊放引擎波箱另一邊放散熱系統呢
(因為記得架概念車車尾窗好似係完整，唔係 B5LH 咁俾個散熱器棟到上去)



同埋唔知會唔會比 12 月既報導再輕左少少呢？ 報導好似話應該同幾架 B5TL 樣板 10.81 噸差唔多
之前倫敦版舊頭幅 V6 就 10.84 噸，Lothian 個部 45/28 高載單門版只有 10.73 噸
下面個 post 見到 Stagecoach 堆 B5LH 可能用返一向用開個種厚少少既凳，要 11.35 噸，比起舊年巴士展個部 11.27 噸重左少少



不過如果連 B5TL 都未見得好賣 (之前公佈係 B5TL 今年初會有埋 MCV 同埋 Voith 版，而家影都未見)
之前報導話過係巴士公司要求出 B5TL 而唔要 B8TL，相信 StreetDeck 選擇 5.1 公升 4汽缸 Benz 偈都係參考緊呢種要求，
而家兩款車容積夠細淨重較輕，但睇返幾間大集團裡面 Stagecoach、First、Arriva、NX 歐六柴油訂單都偏向要返 E400 就算
(雖然好似係 NX 買得最多，但 Arriva 都唔少)，
似乎仍然可以爭既大集團主要淨返 Go Ahead 或者地區性既巴士公司，感覺上 Wright 同 Volvo 好似俾人過左一棟咁

StreetDeck ??
個架只係stagecoach的B5LH....

原帖由 wrightap 於 2014-4-22 16:30 發表
StreetDeck ??
個架只係stagecoach的B5LH....

其他個幾部都係 B5LH，不過樓主講緊呢架無水牌，錶板形狀有少少唔同、車窗分佈、散熱位、車尾窗大細都同 B5LH/B5TL 有少少唔同個部
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-B9Fi8R ... /s1600/IMG_2727.JPG
(個 post 入面張相條 link)

原帖由 HW8373 於 22-4-2014 09:44 PM 發表
不過如果連 B5TL 都未見得好賣 (之前公佈係 B5TL 今年初會有埋 MCV 同埋 Voith 版，而家影都未見)
之前報導話過係巴士公司要求出 B5TL 而唔要 B8TL，相信 StreetDeck 選擇 5.1 公升 4汽缸 Benz 偈都係參考緊呢種要求，
而家兩款車容積夠細淨重較輕，但睇返幾間大集團裡面 Stagecoach、First、Arriva、NX 歐六柴油訂單都偏向要返 E400 就算
(雖然好似係 NX 買得最多，但 Arriva 都唔少)，
似乎仍然可以爭既大集團主要淨返 Go Ahead 或者地區性既巴士公司，感覺上 Wright 同 Volvo 好似俾人過左一棟咁

First、Arriva兩張單都係毆五柴油,
全部都要喺今年年底前交車.
擺到明係想趕毆五尾水.
所以暫時今年大贏家似乎係Wright(Streetlite)喎~
B5TL好唔好賣真係有待時間證明,
始終歐六車價高過歐五一截,
Volvo依家輸嘅就係因為唔可以賣歐五貨俾人.
另一邊廂,
眼見市場Coach陣得返歐六選擇嘅時候,
巴士公司都落單用Volvo個新Product Range.


反而想知嘅係B5TL個實際表現如何,
始終D樣版都好似出咗幾部,
但好似無咩人評論過行車表現:
BF63HFE -Returned to Volvo?
BF63HDC -Lothian Buses 286
BF63HDE -岩岩交咗車俾Metroline
BF63HDG -近況未明
另外仲有一部交咗俾DublinBus (Fleet no. DM1), 行蹤未明·
而同場嘅B5LHE6樣版(Fleet no. DM2) 預計月底會出街載客客.

[ 本帖最後由 HR1554 於 2014-4-23 02:30 編輯 ]

原帖由 HW8373 於 2014-4-22 18:13 發表



其他個幾部都係 B5LH，不過樓主講緊呢架無水牌，錶板形狀有少少唔同、車窗分佈、散熱位、車尾窗大細都同 B5LH/B5TL 有少少唔同個部
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-B9Fi8RRBS-Y/U1WO5r8jZTI/AAAAAAAAEzw/1GYVECO86Bs/s160 ...

At this angle, it is very hard to tell. Nevertheless Wrightbus did say previously that the Streetdeck bodywork is interchangeable with the Gemini 3, so I am not surprised that this can will be the one. Their weight shall be very comparable as well.

原帖由 HW8373 於 2014-4-22 13:44 發表

同埋唔知會唔會比 12 月既報導再輕左少少呢？ 報導好似話應該同幾架 B5TL 樣板 10.81 噸差唔多
之前倫敦版舊頭幅 V6 就 10.84 噸，Lothian 個部 45/28 高載單門版只有 10.73 噸
下面個 post 見到 Stagecoach 堆 B5LH 可能用返一向用開個種厚少少既凳，要 11.35 噸，比起舊年巴士展個部 11.27 噸重左少少

The Lothian B5 is never a good comparator, with its staircase glass panels, it's bounded to bring the weight up a bit.

Where have you seen the weight figure for the Stagecoach B5LHs? I have not seen data from a reliable source. However, if your figure is correct, the new B5LH/Gemini combination is nearly 900kg lighter than Stagecoach London's latest E400Hs, which is quite a gap. I wonder what ADL has done to the new E400 to bridge that.

原帖由 HW8373 於 2014-4-22 13:44 發表

不過如果連 B5TL 都未見得好賣 (之前公佈係 B5TL 今年初會有埋 MCV 同埋 Voith 版，而家影都未見)
之前報導話過係巴士公司要求出 B5TL 而唔要 B8TL，相信 StreetDeck 選擇 5.1 公升 4汽缸 Benz 偈都係參考緊呢種要求，
而家兩款車容積夠細淨重較輕，但睇返幾間大集團裡面 Stagecoach、First、Arriva、NX 歐六柴油訂單都偏向要返 E400 就算
(雖然好似係 NX 買得最多，但 Arriva 都唔少)，
似乎仍然可以爭既大集團主要淨返 Go Ahead 或者地區性既巴士公司，感覺上 Wright 同 Volvo 好似俾人過左一棟咁

Lately ADL sales team have been very aggressive on securing business with the big groups and the E400s gaining ground is hardly a surprise (which is more a tried product comparing to the B5TL). I think both the B5TL and, certainly, the StreetDeck are not matured enough to properly compete with the E400s. Given time though, I expect the tide to turn to a slightly more balanced market share.

原帖由 HR1554 於 2014-4-22 18:21 發表

B5TL好唔好賣真係有待時間證明,
始終歐六車價高過歐五一截,
Volvo依家輸嘅就係因為唔可以賣歐五貨俾人.

反而想知嘅係B5TL個實際表現如何,
始終D樣版都好似出咗幾部,
但好似無咩人評論過行車表現

Actually, Volvo have been selling Euro V products as well, like all those B9TLs that went to Go North East. Volvo have started to catch some orders for the B5TLs though, but both of the orders come from Ireland (and NI shall I say) - Dublin Bus and Translink.

From what I have heard directly and indirectly so far, drivers' feedback has been positive and it is said to be quicker than the B9s (in London traffic anyway). I caught a ride on V6 last year and really don't feel it's massively different - it's hard to judge in traffic anyway. The one thing I don't like is its engine sounds like one coming out from UD, which to be fair, is where the D5K comes from. I have not seen any proper feedback on fuel economy, except in a recent issue of Buses where Volvo is said to be satisfied with how the V6 was doing, which is supposed to be 10-15% better than the B9. At its time in London the V6 seems to be running fairly reliably in its first 3 months in service, but  again, I have not seen any concrete feedback from industrial sources.

原帖由 NV58 於 2014-4-22 19:16 發表


At this angle, it is very hard to tell. Nevertheless Wrightbus did say previously that the Streetdeck bodywork is interchangeable with the Gemini 3, so I am not surprised that this can will be the o ...

正正係樓主個新車速遞 blog 裡面向下少少，4 月十幾號個 post，有兩張相都係 Stagecoach B5LH 門位方向
隱約見到門位車尾貼著 11345 kg (中間個字似 2 或者 3)
反而 Stagecoach 1226x、80022、10000、First 33788 上網摷到既所有相都睇唔清楚淨重數字貼紙，多謝提供 1226x 個數字出黎


至於 Lothian 個架 B5TL，唔知個種樓梯窗周圍既結構使唔使先行強化 (睇落好似無，淨係由金屬變成玻璃)
如果係下層其中一隻車窗下面拆一塊傍板出黎同樓梯透光窗互換位置，樓梯窗既玻璃應該剛好可以填返下層個窿，
個效果就會變成雙門巴士咁 (而且出左 4 張凳，除非樓梯窗厚度會厚過巴士車門玻璃好多) 雖然若果用返普通設計都肯定會更加輕
不過幾架歐六 volvo 樣板車都係用個種自家 specs 藍色花紋配橙柱，肉眼睇落去都感受到有幾咁輕盈，實在薄到不切實際，
之前搭過幾次 V6，Volvo 避震咁靚配合埋咁既藍色薄凳，都係同近乎無避震但座椅兩吋厚既 Routemaster 差唔多，
否則好似倫敦個堆 OmniCity 咁，全車超薄座椅，雖然夠晒輕身，但代價係坐感不知所謂，實在無乜意思






B5TL 似乎都算係巴士迷焦點之一，奇怪在一方面有好多人影相，包括內籠，但拍片或者行車表現既形容就唔係太多
之前有人話 Lothian 個架頭幾日轉轉都過鐘，比較近期既意見好似話架車幾快，
實在唔知信邊一方好，豈或架車本身表現都可以好極端喇
而倫敦個架 V6 之前巴士雜誌都有評論提過話部車算幾夠力，該段評論前既一兩個月自己搭過幾次，感覺都差唔多
如果唔肯踩，架 V6 幾乎算係倫敦最慢最唔去既車之一，反而倫敦 B9TL 搭親都係 1200轉轉波咁濟，但係 cc 太大，企滿人踩輕油都去得好順暢
不過地板油加速既推背感可以算係 E400H 或者 B5LH 之間既屈機級數 (畢竟 B5LH 轉波個下都會抵銷左部分加速力)
係香港同英國都好少搭 d 雙層車可以企滿人都可以加速得咁癲，暫時只諗到 AVBWU1 新車時加速力有咁強
(當然，V6 起步頭半秒無乜料到，同兩軸定三軸 B9TL 都無得比)


[ 本帖最後由 HW8373 於 2014-4-22 23:25 編輯 ]

原帖由 HW8373 於 22/4/2014 09:44 PM 發表

跟著放大張相黎睇，錶板好似唔同左，寧寧舍舍佢無 Volvo 水牌
車窗分佈似 B5TL，頭跨似乎都係一樣咁短，同時車尾散熱網似 Gemini 2DL 個種，擺左邊
之前報導好似話個佈局同 B5LH 相反 (即係擺右邊)，唔知係我記錯定係一邊放引擎波箱另一邊放散熱系統呢
(因為記得架概念車車尾窗好似係完整，唔係 B5LH 咁俾個散熱器棟到上去)

部StreetDeck嘅引擎室應該係兩邊都有散熱口, 而整條動力系統就算係縱置, 尾跨都唔會好長, 可能只係同B5TL差唔多
來源: http://www.busandcoachbuyer.com/daimler-engines-wrightbus-targets-euro-growth/2/

而我哋都知道其底盤零件同設計源自NBfL, 咁多少都會對銷情有幫助

不過佢話部嘢坐七十三人, 即係相當於港版兩軸車(E400, 同MCV雙層)嘅總坐位數量, 行距窄啲就預咗架嘞

[ 本帖最後由 GW5498 於 2014-4-23 10:48 編輯 ]

原帖由 HW8373 於 2014-4-22 22:48 發表



正正係樓主個新車速遞 blog 裡面向下少少，4 月十幾號個 post，有兩張相都係 Stagecoach B5LH 門位方向
隱約見到門位車尾貼著 11345 kg (中間個字似 2 或者 3)
反而 Stagecoach 1226x、80022、10000、First 33788 上 ...

Got it, thanks. It actually looks like 11,243kg to me. For comparison, recent B5LH/Gemini 2s weighs about 12,000kg, so that backs up Wrightbus' claim that the Gemini 3 body is 700kg lighter. In contrast, Stagecoach's recent E400Hs weighs 12,220kg, so actually the gap is a little bit bigger than I thought, which makes the E400 even more interesting, in terms on how ADL will take weight out of the new bus.

That glass panel, I don't think it needs further strengthening really. The strength of the bodywork shall come mostly  from the structural frame, so it shall not be a major issue. I thought Volvo and Wrightbus did say that the single-door version shall be closer to 10 tons, which tells a lot about the penalty of the glass panel.

原帖由 HW8373 於 2014-4-22 22:48 發表

如果唔肯踩，架 V6 幾乎算係倫敦最慢最唔去既車之一，反而倫敦 B9TL 搭親都係 1200轉轉波咁濟，但係 cc 太大，企滿人踩輕油都去得好順暢
不過地板油加速既推背感可以算係 E400H 或者 B5LH 之間既屈機級數 (畢竟 B5LH 轉波個下都會抵銷左部分加速力)

But that goes for every buses anyway doesn't it? Nevertheless, I had previously looked at the specifications on the D5K engine. Basically it has about 10% less torque than the D9B-260, but than the B5TL is about 10% lighter, which shall compensate (until it is fully loaded). The other thing that can go against the B5TL can but turbo lag at low rev, which, in a smaller engine, shall be more noticeable as well.

Off the line, the hybrids are just on a different league, both the E400H and B5LH. Funny enough, the B5s got so much power that the early one suffer wheel spins, but I read that the problem has been corrected when the production batch came along.

I am not so sure about V6. I don't know why every time I went to London for it, it would break down before I got to see it.

In addition, I am not convinced about the "smaller is better" trend. Reading the books regarding older buses, they actually got better fuel economy figures from a larger engine under lighter loads, than a smaller engine under heavier loads. The turbo lag generated on recent new buses is just appalling compared to the older buses.

I found this excerpt from the Routemaster Enthusiast's Manual (Morgan 2012, p. 14):

The change to a larger engine proved London Transport's belief to a smaller engine being made to work harder; not only does the larger engine produce better performance without being over-stretched. The additional 6cwt (50.8kg) weight disadvantage was decided to be a sacrifice worth making.

[ 本帖最後由 FS1819 於 2014-4-24 09:43 編輯 ]