[Guildford, UK][Dennis Way 劣影] 全新 MMC 貼紙車同埋怪獸

ADL正式公布E400MMC，另外都Confirm左幾單亞太區訂單數字。

http://www.alexander-dennis.com/news/80m-flying-start-for-enviro400-as-adl-also-confirms-175m-export-wins/
http://www.alexander-dennis.com/wp-content/files_mf/1398943981NewEnviro400specification.pdf

原帖由 on11358 於 2014-5-1 15:35 發表
ADL正式公布E400MMC，另外都Confirm左幾單亞太區訂單數字。

http://www.alexander-dennis.com/news/80m-flying-start-for-enviro400-as-adl-also-confirms-175m-export-wins/
http://www.alexander-dennis.com/wp-con ...

E400MMC 搣左張貼紙之後竟然比想象中更有 Transbus/Plaxton 既影子

寧願佢將擋風玻璃整返長方形算喇

全車減重 400kg 唔知用邊部黎計呢，如果用而家既歐五歐六雙門 E400 計，似乎仍然比起雙門 B5TL 重




內籠似乎有少少 Wright 影子

車窗條框可以托著隻手既地方少左好多

樓梯底學左 Wright 咁以半透明玻璃代替，亦變埋方梯，今次調轉最底個度上兩級先轉彎

而家連兩軸都玩埋高載版，似乎車廠個架只係樣板...

車型資訊亦即時更新：http://www.alexander-dennis.com/products/enviro400-euro6/

車頭和車尾變成如此多角非常奇怪，好似起曬「鋼／降」咁。車尾引擎的線條好似仲係突出嘅添。
電路板的配置又創新猷，而司機的隔門越見與樓梯組件融合。

[ 本帖最後由 Hongkonger 於 2014-5-2 00:13 編輯 ]

輕得400kg,VDL真是完勝，但本地主要巴士公司仲係大手買ADL
其實應該買多dVDL以免ADL充斥泛濫

原帖由 HW8373 於 2014-5-1 16:08 發表



E400MMC 搣左張貼紙之後竟然比想象中更有 Transbus/Plaxton 既影子

寧願佢將擋風玻璃整返長方形算喇

全車減重 400kg 唔知用邊部黎計呢，如果用而家既歐五歐六雙門 E400 計，似乎仍然比起雙門 B5TL 重

I thought the same as well with respect to the weight. Put it that way, 400kg will bring the new London-spec E400 down to 11.2 tons, that's still about 400 kg heavier than the B5TL/Gemini 3 combination. I have to say though, the new E400 is always going to be handicapped by its larger engine, longer rear overhang and more extensive use of glass.

Have to say though, very futuristic looking thing, and much better than the rather odd looking Gemini 3.

The lower front facia is alright, although the A pillar looks rather large. There also seems to be quite an influence from the Levante.
The area around the front destination display is quite peculiar. While it does reminds us of the President, the way the three lines converge around the mirror mount looks oddball.
The top deck windshield is shaped like that of the current E400. I wish they used the Hong Kong-style front instead, with less curvature looking from the side.
The side of the bus is rather nice. It is surely a plus to retain the large windows.
The rear-end though, is quite a mess. There are simply too many lines packed together. The current rear-end design of the HK-spec E400 is spot on simplistic. There is too much black on the new design. It looks rather cheap, just like the MCV DD rear.

However, I must say that the interior is excellent. It is certainly very airy, and futuristic. ADL does excel in packaging on double deckers.

原帖由 kmbodth 於 2014-5-1 16:59 發表
輕得400kg,VDL真是完勝，但本地主要巴士公司仲係大手買ADL
其實應該買多dVDL以免ADL充斥泛濫

This is a daft statement. DB300 won't be built for Euro 6 and it is history as far as the European market is concerned - the StreetDeck is not based on a DB300.

Anyway, now that we have some numbers to play with, it's time to do a weight comparison on the existing offers and the types they have replaced. Note that the values are sampled data and, in some cases, speculative and will vary between specifications. As a baseline, I am using a TfL 2-door, air-cooled, i-bus fitted specification for all of the types. I have also included the hybrids for completeness.

Euro 5 (2013 built unless otherwise stated)
ADL E40D/E400: 11,625kg (Stagecoach London examples)
Volvo B9TL/Wright EG2: 11,840kg (Go-Ahead London examples)
Wright G2 DL (aka DB300): 11,661kg (Arriva London examples)
ADL E40H/E400: 11,920kg (Go-Ahead London examples)
Volvo B5LH/Wright EG2: 11,901kg (Go-Ahead London examples)
Wright G2 HEV (based on DB300 chassis: 12,480kg (Arriva London examples, built in 2009, Euro 4)
Wright New Routemaster (LT): 12,240kg (late 2013 built)

Euro 6
ADL E40D/E400 NG: 11,260kg* (speculative, based on ADL's claim of 400kg weight saving)
Volvo B5TL/Wright G3: 10,815kg (prototype)
ADL E40H/E400 OG: 12,220kg (Stagecoach London examples, 2014 built)
ADL E40H/E400 NG: 11,520kg* (speculative, based on ADL's claim of 400kg weight saving)
Volvo B5LH/Wright G3: 11,342kg (Stagecoach London examples, 2014 built)

The only ones I don't have data are the Euro 6 LTs (first prototype is coming through delivery) and, of course, the StreetDeck.

A couple of points I shall mention, one is I assume the 400kg saving that ADL claim is against the Euro 5 equivalent, which is the best case scenario. If that saving is actually based on a like-for-like spec, then the new E400H could well weigh some 11,820kg, which is quite a bit heavier than the B5LH. However, we won't know until the first example turns up in London.

Secondly is the E400 is evidently suffering more, weight-wise, with the move to Euro 6. The new Cummins engine which is larger, and the stretched overhang clearly did not help at all - a comparison between the Euro 5 and 6 E400H says it all. All of that is likely to make the diesel version almost certainly the heaviest of the trio (Wrightbus have hinted that the StreetDeck shall have similar weight as the Volvo). Obviously, the orders ADL recently raked up shows that the operators are not concerned, not now anyway.

原帖由 NV58 於 4-5-2014 04:48 發表


This is a daft statement. DB300 won't be built for Euro 6 and it is history as far as the European market is concerned - the StreetDeck is not based on a DB300.

Anyway, now that we have some number ...

A few questions:

What are the implications for the demonstrator in Hong Kong?

What is the successor to the DB300 for VDL? Complete retreat from double deck market?

When will we see the transition to Euro VI in Hong Kong?

In what respects has the Enviro 500 MMC been designed to be future-proof for the Euro VI era?

[ 本帖最後由 Hongkonger 於 2014-5-4 13:26 編輯 ]

原帖由 NV58 於 2014-5-4 04:48 發表


This is a daft statement. DB300 won't be built for Euro 6 and it is history as far as the European market is concerned - the StreetDeck is not based on a DB300.

Anyway, now that we have some number ...

成功拋daft statement引玉,感謝大大指正。當云云車款減磅數字都未過一噸時，在下有位朋友對如何輕出更大的數字很感興趣，而在下亦只能告知E50D從車身和底盤均有偷輕，居功於新物料和省零件嘅接合方式。
而佢就擔心，會否影響結構安全。

咁車輛樣板出廠前應該都有做crush test嘅，其實nb4l個車尾靚就靚喇，但真是咁安全？


咁多年來，從兩軸熱狗到euro 5 B9TL出現之前，巴士淨重好似有升冇減，而E50D嘅出現實在令人驚訝，原來不只輕出3個人重量，可以是8個，或更多，對一般巴士迷而言大概沒有過這樣的概念，甚至認為這只會是天方夜譚。如果不影響結構安全，而一樣可靠，相信大家對能突破更輕淨重嘅巴士是相當歡迎而興奮，12.8米巴士於香港行走又如何？仍是不夠震撼。
E400MMC或許是有個很酷的車尾，這是很吸引，但對巴士公司而言，運作成本更低而更可靠來得更實際。

[ 本帖最後由 kmbodth 於 2014-5-4 14:30 編輯 ]

原帖由 kmbodth 於 2014-5-4 06:17 發表
成功拋daft statement引玉,感謝大大指正。當云云車款減磅數字都未過一噸時，在下有位朋友對如何輕出更大的數字很感興趣，而在下亦只能告知E50D從車身和底盤均有偷輕，居功於新物料和省零件嘅接合方式。
而佢就擔心，會否影響 ...

The weight reduction of over 1 ton has been achieved, if you read properly, by Volvo/Wright's transition from B9TL/EG2 to B5TL/EG3. Using that as an example, the weight came out from:

Chassis (~300kg reduction):
- Using a much smaller engine and structural optimisation (i.e. better body structure integration);
Bodywork (~700kg) reduction):
- Increased use of composite material;
- Smaller windows;
- Perforated internal body panels;
- Use of thinner glass.

I expect the E400 shall save the same amount of weight off the bodywork, although the amount of glass it uses - a major weight driver - is not evidently less than the old E400. However, like I said before, it always suffer weight gain from Cummins' Euro 6 engine, which looks to be about 300kg based on the additional weight incurred in Stagecoach's new Euro 6 E400H. So all that compensate one another to get to the overall weight saving of 400kg.

原帖由 Hongkonger 於 2014-5-4 03:37 發表
A few questions:
What are the implications for the demonstrator in Hong Kong?

It is not much than a new market tester. To me it is nothing more than VDL's effort of trying to breathe some life into a dying product, because nobody in the UK will buy the type anymore with Euro 6 coming in.

原帖由 Hongkonger 於 2014-5-4 03:37 發表
What is the successor to the DB300 for VDL? Complete retreat from double deck market?

VDL did not announce a replacement, and I do not expect them to because, counting hybrids (but excluding the LTs, which is always a niche product), we now have 6 types available for the market. This is a lot considering the UK double decker market is not really that massive these days.

原帖由 Hongkonger 於 2014-5-4 03:37 發表
When will we see the transition to Euro VI in Hong Kong?
In what respects has the Enviro 500 MMC been designed to be future-proof for the Euro VI era?

No idea, I assume only as long as anyone is convinced that Euro 6 types are not more expensive to run, which is a major worry of everyone in concern and drove everyone to take weight out of their products. I will be amazed if the E500MMCs are not designed to take Euro 6 engines, considering how recent it was launched to the market.